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Got Heroes > Heroes: Episode Discussion > Volume Two: Generations > Chapter 09 - "Cautionary Tales"
Pages: 1, 2
Ryan777
Well although everything pointed toward Mohinder Shooting Noah, we all denied it, saying that Mohinder wouldn't do it, guess we were wrong. I just can't believe that Mohinder would kill Noah. Dam, what are your thoughts?

WHOA, MEGA TWIST, Noah is not dead? Darn that was riveting.
Enigma
i think the ending of the episode was one of the greatest call backs/great twists in the history of television! they got me tonight man, great stuff...
Ryan777
QUOTE(Enigma @ Nov 19 2007, 10:01 PM) *
i think the ending of the episode was one of the greatest call backs/great twists in the history of television! they got me tonight man, great stuff...


Heck yea, when they showed Claire's blood via the Iv thing in the persons arm, I was like Nikki? No wait, Noah?!?! Awsomeness
CoffeeDiva
Mazel Tov! He's alive! Praise the Lord for blood with healing properties! Amen. laugh.gif
Enigma
big ups to creative to even do that tease - that is what this volume has needed! i finally got that feeling of (to quote HRG) "Holy Sh..."!
Aerdna
I seriously started to cry. And I must say, the scene was beautifully executed. So tragic but exhiliarating.

At least Noah's not dead! smile.gif
Enigma
really was done magnificently, and ill be honest, i didnt see it coming from suresh at all. they took a major chance with that scene IMO and good lord did it pay off.
Ryan777
The slow motion of him getting shot, the music drowning out the voices of people, the sunset, it was so perfect. And I totally didn't expect them to go with the obvious root.
Enigma
QUOTE(Ryan777 @ Nov 19 2007, 07:18 PM) *
And I totally didn't expect them to go with the obvious root.


EXACTLY!
TheLindermanAct
Why do you think Bob revivied him with Claires blood?
Silentsoto
great point, i thought the same thing, their logical choice would have been to use the blood on Nikki right away so it doesn't spread ( granted they don't know of the looming epidemic)

but Bob got about a pint from her, so he figured he could spare some in order to revive an old friend who could be more valuable alive if he needs more blood from Claire.
Atheshar
We so sure it was Bob who revived him? His plan was always to kill Noah...
Silentsoto
maybe because with Noah dead he knew he could take Claire's blood more freely, maybe his plan was always to revive him.




But it would be an AWESOME twist if somehow peter and adam teleported/flew there and the revived him with adam's blood. It would make sense since they share the same m/o.
- STOP THE COMPANY!
starwarsgeek
QUOTE(Silentsoto @ Nov 19 2007, 08:17 PM) *
maybe because with Noah dead he knew he could take Claire's blood more freely, maybe his plan was always to revive him.
But it would be an AWESOME twist if somehow peter and adam teleported/flew there and the revived him with adam's blood. It would make sense since they share the same m/o.
- STOP THE COMPANY!


possibly, if Peter's Molly power kicked in at the right time, but I doubt it. I'm guesing one of three things:

1) The company is testing Clair's potential on HRG (feels weird to call him that now...)

2) Bob wants to re-recruit Noah

3) Use as hostage for more of Clair's blood
Rosario The Loner
QUOTE(Ryan777 @ Nov 19 2007, 09:05 PM) *
Heck yea, when they showed Claire's blood via the Iv thing in the persons arm, I was like Nikki? No wait, Noah?!?! Awsomeness


I dont know why but I thought that it was Bob at first. Angela was talking about you become immortal after awhile of being regenerated so yeah. But the ending was done like a perfect heroes ending. They take you in one direction and BAM they prove you wrong or surprise you.

Poor Nikki hope she doesnt die now
awesomemac
Isaac Mendez fooled me again! Just like Peter lying in front of the school. Mohinder just had to shoot Noah didn't he? In the head too! Why Mohinder?! But Noah lives! He lives! Yes! Now who saved him and why? Bob? Wouldn't have been that psycho Elle...right? And we finally see who pushed Kaito. It WAS Adam. Hiro 'stopped' Sylar...will he get Adam? They can dump Adam in the future with Caitlin until they think of a plan;-)
tashnag_01
wat did i tell yaz

Whatever Isaac has painted, WILL come true..no matter what you do!
minara
BAD Mohinder.

Now go to your room and think about what you've done.
Atheshar
QUOTE(minara @ Nov 20 2007, 04:13 AM) *
BAD Mohinder.

Now go to your room and think about what you've done.


For some reason this made me giggle.
Auxii
*Secretly wishes he would die*
Haha.
minara
QUOTE(Atheshar @ Nov 20 2007, 07:32 AM) *
For some reason this made me giggle.

wink.gif

That was the intent. wink.gif
monicima
I think Mohinder is actually the one who has revived HRG
The Haitian
QUOTE (Ryan777 @ Nov 19 2007, 06:57 PM) *
Well although everything pointed toward Mohinder Shooting Noah, we all denied it, saying that Mohinder wouldn't do it, guess we were wrong. I just can't believe that Mohinder would kill Noah. Dam, what are your thoughts?

WHOA, MEGA TWIST, Noah is not dead? Darn that was riveting.


Noah Bennett is one of the best characters this show has, he's complex and strong and yet has no special ability, he's a non-hero, a dad who wants to protect his family at all cost. Killing him permanently would have been a mistake. I just hope they keep on doing a good job with this character.
bignas1234
Atleast claire was good for something, rather then her bickering all the time
ShadowSage
Wow, that was really unexpected. I really cannot wait for next week's epsiode.

And I lol'd when Noah said "Holy shi-" and then the "To be continued screen comes up, XD
Dori
QUOTE(Ryan777 @ Nov 20 2007, 03:57 AM) *
Well although everything pointed toward Mohinder Shooting Noah, we all denied it, saying that Mohinder wouldn't do it, guess we were wrong. I just can't believe that Mohinder would kill Noah. Dam, what are your thoughts?

WHOA, MEGA TWIST, Noah is not dead? Darn that was riveting.


I liked that. When he "died" I thought, damned, one interesting more character gone (and the second: why couldn't it be the twins?)
I like grey characters who aren't just black and white, good or evil. I think it was a bis loss if Noah dies for the serie.
Heroes_Crazy
WOW I really didn't like Noah in the first season until the last few episodes... now I'm a big fan of him... and when he got shot... i shouted *noooo, he cant die* I was shocked.. how could they kill Noah... then at the end I never expected it was Noah.. thinking who the hell is that... then is showed his face... and i smiled! biggrin.gif

Anyway I wonder who revived him... Did Bob take him on the van with Mohinder?!?! Why would they want to revive him...?!?! Is he more important than we though he was?!?!?!

Sooo many questions?!?!
mr. peasant
Actually, I think the revival scene was a bad move. It all boils down to timing. While I understand the show is working under the constraints of limited episodes, but I think the plot twist would have worked better if they had ended the episode with Noah dead. And then either wait a few episodes, or put it in the next if they have to, place the revival scene at the end of that episode. I think they probably have a use for the character in the finale. Otherwise, imagine the awesomeness if they had continued the series without him only to put the revival scene at the very end of the finale before the credits.
Yatta!
QUOTE(mr. peasant @ Nov 20 2007, 08:36 PM) *
Actually, I think the revival scene was a bad move. It all boils down to timing. While I understand the show is working under the constraints of limited episodes, but I think the plot twist would have worked better if they had ended the episode with Noah dead. And then either wait a few episodes, or put it in the next if they have to, place the revival scene at the end of that episode. I think they probably have a use for the character in the finale. Otherwise, imagine the awesomeness if they had continued the series without him only to put the revival scene at the very end of the finale before the credits.


Kring has already said they have an out of the blue cliffhanger. So i imagine its even better than that
-sparky-
QUOTE(TheLindermanAct @ Nov 20 2007, 03:23 AM) *
Why do you think Bob revivied him with Claires blood?


I don't think thats Claires blood...
Jongrai
defiantly noah, coming back and like holy!! but dont u realize, claire noah has "died" in both seasons? both by a partner?
qinrawks
QUOTE(-sparky- @ Nov 21 2007, 09:03 AM) *
I don't think thats Claires blood...


I think it's Claire's blood. Who else has blood that can enable his eye to grow back? Okay, Adam does, but as they said before, they don't have a sample of Adam's blood or they wouldn't have to use Claire at all.
Ryan777
QUOTE(tashnag_01 @ Nov 20 2007, 05:56 AM) *
wat did i tell yaz

Whatever Isaac has painted, WILL come true..no matter what you do!


Uhh, How about New York blowing up. You can't count that unless occurring in an alternate future counts.
deckstor
Noah Bennet, a true hero.
mr. peasant
QUOTE(Ryan777 @ Nov 20 2007, 07:37 PM) *
Uhh, How about New York blowing up. You can't count that unless occurring in an alternate future counts.


That's just nitpicking. I mean, to do it accurately, you'd have to say "almost everything he's painted has come true except this one prediction he made about a bomb going off in New York but it almost did except some random people who had learned about this prediction intervened, thus stopping it from happening the way it was predicted to happen" which is not only a mouthful but kind of loses its effect.
-sparky-
QUOTE(qinrawks @ Nov 21 2007, 02:05 AM) *
I think it's Claire's blood. Who else has blood that can enable his eye to grow back? Okay, Adam does, but as they said before, they don't have a sample of Adam's blood or they wouldn't have to use Claire at all.


True...

But you assume that its Bob that has saved Noah and Noah is waking up in Bobs 'facility'...
Does the room that Noah woke up in look *anything* like Bobs facility?

Bearing in mind that when Bob first met Mohinder he said that money wasn't a problem...
Does that room that Noah woke up in look anything like a room that had had an inexhaustible supply of money spent on it?

I say again...

You *assume* its Claires blood...


QUOTE(mr. peasant @ Nov 21 2007, 08:23 AM) *
That's just nitpicking. I mean, to do it accurately, you'd have to say "almost everything he's painted has come true except this one prediction he made about a bomb going off in New York but it almost did except some random people who had learned about this prediction intervened, thus stopping it from happening the way it was predicted to happen" which is not only a mouthful but kind of loses its effect.


You *assume* that the painting of New York blowing up was Peters explosion...

It *could* be another explosion!!
Atheshar
QUOTE(-sparky- @ Nov 21 2007, 01:06 AM) *
You *assume* that the painting of New York blowing up was Peters explosion...

It *could* be another explosion!!


The only problem I have with that is that subtitles don't lie... unless you're saying "five years later" that appeared on the bottom of the screen wasn't REALLY "five years later" and therefore that the title lied when it brought up those words, then Future Hiro had to have lied when he said NYC blew up 5 years go. We have 2 separate sources - a character, and the subtitle - both giving the same time span. Five years. That means the "5 yrs ago" F.Hiro spoke of was the day Peter was scheduled to blow up. =/
Triton
When I saw the scorching bullet pierce Bennet's eyeball exploding it right off his head with the grinding sound of lead ripping through his brain, a intense feeling of shock and then anger surged through me. And I thought to myself Bennet should have killed that no-good son-of-a-b!tch Mohinder earlier when he had the chance.

Mohinder really is a weak backstabbing piece of work.
Kaenkun
QUOTE(Triton @ Nov 21 2007, 08:38 PM) *
When I saw the scorching bullet pierce Bennet's eye exploding it right off his head with the grinding sound of lead whurring through his brain, a intense feeling of shock and then anger surged through me. And I thought to myself Bennet should have killed that no-good son-of-a-b!tch Mohinder earlier when he had the chance.

Mohinder really is a weak backstabbing piece of work.


Don't talk that way about "Fight Club"!......Mohinder 4 Life!
Trixie Prower
QUOTE(Silentsoto @ Nov 19 2007, 07:30 PM) *
great point, i thought the same thing, their logical choice would have been to use the blood on Nikki right away so it doesn't spread ( granted they don't know of the looming epidemic)


Unless...Bob WANTS the virus to break out, they wanted the bomb to explode maybe they're still wanting to have half new york on their knees, and he could use "Saving Noah" as an excuse.
Or it could be Adam, wanting information.
those are the only two possibilities I see.



Suresh might have killed him cause Noah almost killed him a little while before, maybe "He'll shoot me next since the kid's not here to stop him." was in his mind, either that or misfire, if not misfire possibly he's still under the notion Bob's a good guy, I don't see him "Wanting" to be evil, he may be tricked like Peter's tricked into thinking he's doing the right thing by helping Adam only in this case it's Suresh tricked into thinking he's doing the right thing by Bob.
Atheshar
QUOTE(Triton @ Nov 21 2007, 08:38 PM) *
Mohinder really is a weak backstabbing piece of work.

Well someone is in a vindictive mood.

*will defend Mohinder to last breath... despite love of the Noah character*


I don't think Mohinder was thinking at ALL about himself dying when he pulled the trigger. He said in the past he didn't think Noah would kill him, and then his faith was born out: Noah let him go. Even AFTER knowing Mohinder betrayed him.

Rather, he knows about the virus, and that the Company is needed intact to contain it. Besides which he remains working with the Company, even though Molly is now cured and he doesn't have to - because he believes that so long as he's there, he can stop them from doing something really bad.

If all he cared about was his own life, he wouldn't still be with them. He would have ditched Bob&Co long ago. But (1) he knows they're FAR too casual with the virus, which he has been attempting to correct and (2) Noah would've been killed by Elle if he hadn't insisted on Bob changing plans. Killing Noah was a last-ditch resort because he couldn't afford to have Bob die: Bob's the person he's trying to set back on track.

He is clearly struggling with it morally afterwards, as well.
Trixie Prower
That's what I thought, he didn't ever show any evil quality, I knew he wasn't planning on it, I guess it just "Happened" he's clearly on the wrong side though, that guy Bob gives me the creeps and his daughter loves to see people in pain, if I were Suresh I'd stand clear. lol
Atheshar
I would if I were too, but he doesn't, which I think is neat. We should probably look for a turnaround in Elle's character soon... no one encounters Noah and leaves unchanged, it seems. Not even Bob! Was that fatherly sympathy I detected there? A bit of empathy for HRG, perhaps?

A brush with the Company, no matter how tempted we are to shriek "evil!!" when it appears, seems to make characters infinitely more interesting. Noah, Bob, Mohinder - even Peter and Adam...
Triton
I don't know if Mohinder planned to kill him per se but he had the kind of mentality to do what he felt was right even if it meant taking Bennet out, as evidenced earlier in the ep by the way Mohinder coerced Bennet at gunpoint. Yes Mohinder was acting upon the knowledge of the virus, but I just cannot comprehend how he can so freely take another man's life, a friend of sorts, without contemplating what he is doing and the consequences of it, at least not until afterwards.

The situation was Bennet holding Bob at gunpoint. Bob represented his dreams and hopes for curing the virus. Mohinder should have at least done what any other man would have, negotiate, pull out his gun and threaten to kill Bennet if he killed Bob. Instead he just whips out his gun and kills him in a flash. No pause, no hesitation, nothing. Acting on impulse... that doesn't mean he's still a good guy. Bennet on the other hand was acting to take the company down. He knows of the numerous terrible things the company has done, and this was also the reason Mohinder got involved with the company in the first place. In case you were wondering, Molly isn't the reason that Mohinder joined the company.

Mohinder failed to realise again and again (or maybe forgot again and again) that the company is not entirely what it seems having a hidden agenda of 'testing' people. When it came down to it, it was either Bennet or Bob, and Bob doesn't sound too sincere, considering the numerous times he lied and misled him and others. Frankly I wouldn't trust my life and my visions on a guy like him. Mohinder for some warped reason treated Bob the end all or be all into stopping the virus, and if he really thought that Claire, of all people, was the cure for it I don't think it had to end this way.

Mohinder is the kind of guy who would kill Peter in order to stop the bomb.
Trixie Prower
Also a good point, if you look at it that way, he could have hesitated.
I still think it was misfire though, it didn't show Shuresh's reaction, only Noah's downfall, maybe Shuresh jolted backwards in surprise and just didn't get any more involved, how else could he shoot perfectly into the eye from 20 feet away without enough time to look?
Warren
QUOTE(Triton @ Nov 21 2007, 08:38 PM) *
When I saw the scorching bullet pierce Bennet's eyeball exploding it right off his head with the grinding sound of lead ripping through his brain, a intense feeling of shock and then anger surged through me. And I thought to myself Bennet should have killed that no-good son-of-a-b!tch Mohinder earlier when he had the chance.

Mohinder really is a weak backstabbing piece of work.



Haha. This is EXACTLY how I felt! EXACT same...I was like "that bastard mohinder!" and I totally lost all good feelings I had for his character.
maxxann
QUOTE(Trixie Prower @ Nov 22 2007, 02:25 PM) *
Also a good point, if you look at it that way, he could have hesitated.
I still think it was misfire though, it didn't show Shuresh's reaction, only Noah's downfall, maybe Shuresh jolted backwards in surprise and just didn't get any more involved, how else could he shoot perfectly into the eye from 20 feet away without enough time to look?

nah, Mohinder is a good shooter. In season 1, he has a gun in his dad's apartment when he suspected someone following him (HRG). And he doesn't have to be precise, he was just a few feet away.
Atheshar
Couple random thoughts. Or not so random.

1 - I've talked about Mohinder's accuracy in the past, concerning fate etc. He really did kill HRG and knew what he was doing.

2 - However he clearly had serious moral issues going on afterwards. I don't think he was regretting that he actually killed HRG, as much as he wondered what was happening to him: since when does Mohinder kill people? Seriously? Since when does he consider anything greater than life itself? Those have to be the kinds of questions he's asking himself. He does not want to turn into HRG or Bob, and treat living and dying so casually. His earlier reaction to Bob's suggestion that they "take out her [claire's] father" is proof enough of that.

3 - given (2), if he thought he had any other choice, he wouldn't have pulled that trigger. Did you see that expression on HRG's face as he threatened Bob? It was gleeful, almost *insane* even. Not exactly the kind of man you try to reason with. Add that to HRG killing Ivan not all that long ago.

4 - Mohinder DOES say "please don't do this" when HRG takes aim, so please stop acting like he just decided killing HRG would make his day easier.

4a - When HRG released the safety on that gun there was ZERO doubt in my mind that he was eight-tenths of a second from wiping Bob out of the heroes cast, permanently. We know our HRG: he's that bad***, you don't reason with him. You obey or die.

5 - Suresh's reaction: it does show his face after. Something of an expressionless "this must be a dream - I can't actually have had to shoot him" look.

6 - I wonder what y'all would be saying if Mohinder just stood there as HRG killed Bob. I can guess, though. Face it, no matter what he does or doesn't do, you've pretty much already screwed him over in your minds =p
Trixie Prower
Hey hey I wasn't saying "ZOMG I HATE HIM!111!" I was just saying I was surprised he shot him so quickly, I didn't suspect it from him and thus I was shocked. XD
Triton
What you've just said is that the decision to kill Bennet was a calcualated split-second move made at time after judging the pros and cons of the situation. However I concur, I believe it was a judgement based on rash reasoning at the given time because if he was thinking correctly he wouldn't shoot Bennet dead.

1. It was calculated to an extent, though he did not properly assess the situation.
2. Actually I do think he regretted killing HRG. This is no excuse for what he's done.
3. The subjective nature of this doesn't mean anything. Although the case with Ivan may have influenced his decision I don't think it would be enough to actually shoot and kill a friend.
4. No need to get emotional, Mohinder saying "please don't do this" is hardly a reason for Bennet to take him seriously.
4a. Again subjective. He did release the safety on Mohinder earlier but managed to restrain himself.
5. Yes I'd say it was a feeling of shock of what he's done. I'm saying Mohinder acted without properly considering what he was doing, as evidenced by the shocked feeling on his face after he shot him dead.

In any case you've missed my main point completely. You just don't get it don't you? Let me reiterate my points and tell you why the decision he made was a mistake:
- Mohinder is foolish for trusting the company more than Bennet. The amount of times Bob misled him is numerous, and his relationship with him is much more mistrustful than with his working relationship with Bennet built on a level of trust. It's about who he trusts more, on one hand the company is working to find a cure for the virus, and on the other the company has a secret underlying agenda.
- This brings me to my next point, mohinder somehow cannot comprehend the dangers and risks of giving Claire to the company. What Bennet has been trying to do all his life has once again fallen on deaf ears on Mohinder.
- And also, for some reason Mohinder treats the company as the end all or be all to treating the virus. It's understandable that he may think that a viable solution may lie within the company, but be cannot weigh up the very real dangers involved with trusting the company on certain issues such as their handling of Claire.

Here's something for you to think about:
- Just because Mohinder killed Bennet for the virus it doesn't mean he made the right choice
- Which brings me back to my initial point, when it comes down to it Mohinder killed Bennet and betrayed him and therefore is a backstabber, something you refuse to acknowledge. There is no excuse for taking taking Bennet's life considering the circumstances.

And to answer your question on on what we'll be saying if Mohinder didn't kill Bennet, don't delude yourself. Only someone with your lack of intelligence would think that. Now go and rest your little brain of yours and eat a banana.
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